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	<title>Comments for Plan to Win</title>
	<atom:link href="http://plantowin.net.au/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://plantowin.net.au</link>
	<description>Social Movement Learning</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 04:13:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Spy vs Activist: Managing Security Risks by Anthony</title>
		<link>http://plantowin.net.au/2012/01/spy-vs-activist/#comment-1069</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 04:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plantowin.net.au/?p=506#comment-1069</guid>
		<description>For future reference - the Surveillance of Activists section of ActivistRights.org.au is now updated 

http://www.activistrights.org.au/handbook/ch01s08.php  and a section on dealing with surveillance and infiltration

here http://www.activistrights.org.au/handbook/ch03s09.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For future reference &#8211; the Surveillance of Activists section of ActivistRights.org.au is now updated </p>
<p><a href="http://www.activistrights.org.au/handbook/ch01s08.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.activistrights.org.au/handbook/ch01s08.php</a>  and a section on dealing with surveillance and infiltration</p>
<p>here <a href="http://www.activistrights.org.au/handbook/ch03s09.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.activistrights.org.au/handbook/ch03s09.php</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Frameworks for Winning Change by Tim Gee</title>
		<link>http://plantowin.net.au/2012/04/change-frameworks/#comment-1053</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Gee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 21:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plantowin.net.au/?p=714#comment-1053</guid>
		<description>A nice post bringing some different models together. 

There are many more stages models of course - Hopper&#039;s four stages of the revolutionarly process, the one attributed to Blumer, Mauss and Tilly that identifies four stages of social movements aswell as Downs&#039; &#039;Issue Attention Cycle&#039;. 

I developed the Counterpower model as a kind of amalgam of the others. All of the models listed are quite defendable, as they are fairly similar. This isn&#039;t coincedence - at least with the benefit of hindsight and the broad view, each movement&#039;s story seems to have a smiliar structure. This in turn corresponds with Gandhi&#039;s famous 4 stage maxim - first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win (I wrote an article for Peace News on this recently here - http://peacenews.info/blog/6722/just-beginning .  

What I think is particularly interesting about most attempts to present such models is the disclaimers and caveats that almost every writer presents. For example Bill Moyer writes “From past experience, real-life social movements will neither fit exactly nor move through the stages linearly, smoothly, or in the manner outlined”. Joe Slovo (who also proposed a model) warns that “every political struggle has specific phases and stages…but there is no Chinese wall between these stages; they flow from and into one another”. 

So I think all of these are best seen as heuristic devices. But I do think they are useful ones for trainers. Different kinds of support are needed at different stages of campaigns. And working out what kind of support, and whose insight is most useful, first necessitates working out what stage a campaign is at. 

As Alinsky writes at the start of Rules for Radicals &#039;Effective organising is thwarted by the desire for instant and dramatic change...to go right in to the third act, skipping the first two.&#039; But it can also guard against the too frequent travesty of organisations forming but being to meek to challenge the power of the &#039;haves&#039; at all. 

Hope those might be some useful thoughts in your discussion...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A nice post bringing some different models together. </p>
<p>There are many more stages models of course &#8211; Hopper&#8217;s four stages of the revolutionarly process, the one attributed to Blumer, Mauss and Tilly that identifies four stages of social movements aswell as Downs&#8217; &#8216;Issue Attention Cycle&#8217;. </p>
<p>I developed the Counterpower model as a kind of amalgam of the others. All of the models listed are quite defendable, as they are fairly similar. This isn&#8217;t coincedence &#8211; at least with the benefit of hindsight and the broad view, each movement&#8217;s story seems to have a smiliar structure. This in turn corresponds with Gandhi&#8217;s famous 4 stage maxim &#8211; first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win (I wrote an article for Peace News on this recently here &#8211; <a href="http://peacenews.info/blog/6722/just-beginning" rel="nofollow">http://peacenews.info/blog/6722/just-beginning</a> .  </p>
<p>What I think is particularly interesting about most attempts to present such models is the disclaimers and caveats that almost every writer presents. For example Bill Moyer writes “From past experience, real-life social movements will neither fit exactly nor move through the stages linearly, smoothly, or in the manner outlined”. Joe Slovo (who also proposed a model) warns that “every political struggle has specific phases and stages…but there is no Chinese wall between these stages; they flow from and into one another”. </p>
<p>So I think all of these are best seen as heuristic devices. But I do think they are useful ones for trainers. Different kinds of support are needed at different stages of campaigns. And working out what kind of support, and whose insight is most useful, first necessitates working out what stage a campaign is at. </p>
<p>As Alinsky writes at the start of Rules for Radicals &#8216;Effective organising is thwarted by the desire for instant and dramatic change&#8230;to go right in to the third act, skipping the first two.&#8217; But it can also guard against the too frequent travesty of organisations forming but being to meek to challenge the power of the &#8216;haves&#8217; at all. </p>
<p>Hope those might be some useful thoughts in your discussion&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Frameworks for Winning Change by Casper ter Kuile</title>
		<link>http://plantowin.net.au/2012/04/change-frameworks/#comment-1043</link>
		<dc:creator>Casper ter Kuile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plantowin.net.au/?p=714#comment-1043</guid>
		<description>This is great - thanks Holly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is great &#8211; thanks Holly!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Frameworks for Winning Change by Matthew Herbert</title>
		<link>http://plantowin.net.au/2012/04/change-frameworks/#comment-1042</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Herbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 18:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plantowin.net.au/?p=714#comment-1042</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://wagingnonviolence.org/2012/02/occupy-the-long-view/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;George Lakey&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.occupystl.org/2012/01/08/strategizing-for-a-living-revolution/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Occupy St Louis&lt;/a&gt; have recently been throwing around ideas on frameworks (especially Lakey&#039;s five stage framework). The posts have some interesting insights, including a comparison of the Lakey and Moyer models.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://wagingnonviolence.org/2012/02/occupy-the-long-view/" rel="nofollow">George Lakey</a> and <a href="http://www.occupystl.org/2012/01/08/strategizing-for-a-living-revolution/" rel="nofollow">Occupy St Louis</a> have recently been throwing around ideas on frameworks (especially Lakey&#8217;s five stage framework). The posts have some interesting insights, including a comparison of the Lakey and Moyer models.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Review: Deep Green Resistance by Cedric Beidatsch</title>
		<link>http://plantowin.net.au/2012/01/deep-green-resistance/#comment-999</link>
		<dc:creator>Cedric Beidatsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 14:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plantowin.net.au/?p=534#comment-999</guid>
		<description>The core argument of DGR is quite simply this: we are in the middle of the sixth extinction event, and this is human generated and caused. Our civilisation is rendering 200 species per day extinct. That&#039;s a holocaust.  There is a holocaust occurring in our lifetime; what are we going to do about it? the analaogy is Europe 1943; traditional activism did not stop the death camp trains, and won&#039;t stop the drumroll of species extinction. Not before it is probably too late anyway. So; what are each of us going to do about it? I have a heap of theoretical disagreements with the book; but so what. Focussing on those is a red herring; it substitues intellectual wank for hard headed practical thinking. It encourages horizontal hostility (as the authors&#039; call it) among the oppositional forces, rather than vertical hostility against the strucutre that is destroying the planet and any residual civil society. Against the bulldozer of capitalism. The great merit of DGR is that asks the hard questions. And pushes the readers not to dodge them but think about them. As to surveillance and repression, well they answer that. Guess what - it is going to happen anyway. Anyone who has been on threads like this, been involved in organising and agitation, well we are all on a list anyway, and when the time suits them will have our doors kicked in. All one has to do is look at what happened in Perth during the CHOGM circus last year, when people were actually prohibited from enetering the city. Read the book - lots and lots of unpalatable facts and squirm inducing arguments. The best kind of book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The core argument of DGR is quite simply this: we are in the middle of the sixth extinction event, and this is human generated and caused. Our civilisation is rendering 200 species per day extinct. That&#8217;s a holocaust.  There is a holocaust occurring in our lifetime; what are we going to do about it? the analaogy is Europe 1943; traditional activism did not stop the death camp trains, and won&#8217;t stop the drumroll of species extinction. Not before it is probably too late anyway. So; what are each of us going to do about it? I have a heap of theoretical disagreements with the book; but so what. Focussing on those is a red herring; it substitues intellectual wank for hard headed practical thinking. It encourages horizontal hostility (as the authors&#8217; call it) among the oppositional forces, rather than vertical hostility against the strucutre that is destroying the planet and any residual civil society. Against the bulldozer of capitalism. The great merit of DGR is that asks the hard questions. And pushes the readers not to dodge them but think about them. As to surveillance and repression, well they answer that. Guess what &#8211; it is going to happen anyway. Anyone who has been on threads like this, been involved in organising and agitation, well we are all on a list anyway, and when the time suits them will have our doors kicked in. All one has to do is look at what happened in Perth during the CHOGM circus last year, when people were actually prohibited from enetering the city. Read the book &#8211; lots and lots of unpalatable facts and squirm inducing arguments. The best kind of book.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Art and Campaigning by Tom Civil</title>
		<link>http://plantowin.net.au/2012/03/campaign-art/#comment-930</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Civil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2012 03:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plantowin.net.au/?p=682#comment-930</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the summary Holly! You caught a lot of what was discussed. Thanks to everybody who came, spoke, participated and organised the night. I found it very inspiring to be together discussing such things so close to my heart...

X Tom

PS&gt; I am going to be on a panel discussion in late May at the THE HUMAN RIGHTS ARTS &amp; FILM FESTIVAL about Street Art, Graffiti, the City and Politics. http://hraff.org.au</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the summary Holly! You caught a lot of what was discussed. Thanks to everybody who came, spoke, participated and organised the night. I found it very inspiring to be together discussing such things so close to my heart&#8230;</p>
<p>X Tom</p>
<p>PS&gt; I am going to be on a panel discussion in late May at the THE HUMAN RIGHTS ARTS &amp; FILM FESTIVAL about Street Art, Graffiti, the City and Politics. <a href="http://hraff.org.au" rel="nofollow">http://hraff.org.au</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Art and Campaigning by Naomi Blackburn</title>
		<link>http://plantowin.net.au/2012/03/campaign-art/#comment-926</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi Blackburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plantowin.net.au/?p=682#comment-926</guid>
		<description>Glad you caught Tom&#039;s comment about the role of art in building our own culture, there were so many interesting sub-topics in this forum and that was one I would have loved to spend more time on. It made me think of this beautiful poster of the Washpool rainforest I had in my bedroom growing up. I&#039;d bought it from an activist stall at Bondi Markets and it was probably the first link I made between activists and forests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you caught Tom&#8217;s comment about the role of art in building our own culture, there were so many interesting sub-topics in this forum and that was one I would have loved to spend more time on. It made me think of this beautiful poster of the Washpool rainforest I had in my bedroom growing up. I&#8217;d bought it from an activist stall at Bondi Markets and it was probably the first link I made between activists and forests.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Art and Campaigning by emma kefford</title>
		<link>http://plantowin.net.au/2012/03/campaign-art/#comment-920</link>
		<dc:creator>emma kefford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plantowin.net.au/?p=682#comment-920</guid>
		<description>the night was great!! 
thanks holly, this sums it up pretty well for me too. 
I also liked what Texta was saying about the vulnerability of the artist and expression. The vulnerability/empowerment relationship is pretty interesting! 

we need more of these kinda forums!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the night was great!!<br />
thanks holly, this sums it up pretty well for me too.<br />
I also liked what Texta was saying about the vulnerability of the artist and expression. The vulnerability/empowerment relationship is pretty interesting! </p>
<p>we need more of these kinda forums!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Review: Deep Green Resistance by Holly Hammond</title>
		<link>http://plantowin.net.au/2012/01/deep-green-resistance/#comment-802</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly Hammond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plantowin.net.au/?p=534#comment-802</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been revisiting Bill Moyer&#039;s Movement Action Plan and thought his characterisation of the &#039;negative rebel&#039; would be relevant here. Here&#039;s a snippet from &#039;Doing Democracy&#039; (2001, pg 37):

&#039;Negative rebels make bad revolutionaries. Despite their radical ideology and bravado, negative rebels usually act out of deep feelings of powerlessness, hopelessness, and desperation. Because they see the powerholders and system as all-powerful and themselves as relatively powerless, negative rebels have little hope of achieving success. Consequently, they propose rebellious tactics out of deep personal and political frustration and anger... Many negative rebels act on the sense that &quot;We have to do something; it doesn&#039;t matter what.&quot; As a result, many of their activities violate guidelines for achieving movement success, eg:
* Negative rebels alienate the public.
* Negative rebels reduce movement legitimacy and power.
* Negative rebels cause movement burnout, dropout and dissipation.
* Negative rebels legitimate fascistic tactics.
* Negative rebels provide an excuse for police to be violent and for legislation to pass laws contravening basic civil rights of protest.&#039;

For more context check out the four roles of activists and eight stages of social movements outlined in Doing Democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been revisiting Bill Moyer&#8217;s Movement Action Plan and thought his characterisation of the &#8216;negative rebel&#8217; would be relevant here. Here&#8217;s a snippet from &#8216;Doing Democracy&#8217; (2001, pg 37):</p>
<p>&#8216;Negative rebels make bad revolutionaries. Despite their radical ideology and bravado, negative rebels usually act out of deep feelings of powerlessness, hopelessness, and desperation. Because they see the powerholders and system as all-powerful and themselves as relatively powerless, negative rebels have little hope of achieving success. Consequently, they propose rebellious tactics out of deep personal and political frustration and anger&#8230; Many negative rebels act on the sense that &#8220;We have to do something; it doesn&#8217;t matter what.&#8221; As a result, many of their activities violate guidelines for achieving movement success, eg:<br />
* Negative rebels alienate the public.<br />
* Negative rebels reduce movement legitimacy and power.<br />
* Negative rebels cause movement burnout, dropout and dissipation.<br />
* Negative rebels legitimate fascistic tactics.<br />
* Negative rebels provide an excuse for police to be violent and for legislation to pass laws contravening basic civil rights of protest.&#8217;</p>
<p>For more context check out the four roles of activists and eight stages of social movements outlined in Doing Democracy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Framing and the ALP Leadership by Jake</title>
		<link>http://plantowin.net.au/2012/02/alp-leadership-framing/#comment-732</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 03:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plantowin.net.au/?p=638#comment-732</guid>
		<description>Very interesting article, I dig the political analysis around the dignity of work and Gillard&#039;s meritocracy myth. Reminds me of her Whitlam lecture where she told Australian&#039;s to &#039;set your alarm clocks early&#039;. As a friend remarked, I thought the point of the Labour movement was that we should be able to set our alarm clocks as late as possible, so long as we get the work done...

Thanks for sharing the Drama triangle, useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting article, I dig the political analysis around the dignity of work and Gillard&#8217;s meritocracy myth. Reminds me of her Whitlam lecture where she told Australian&#8217;s to &#8216;set your alarm clocks early&#8217;. As a friend remarked, I thought the point of the Labour movement was that we should be able to set our alarm clocks as late as possible, so long as we get the work done&#8230;</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing the Drama triangle, useful.</p>
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